1957 Thames Trader MkI [500E]

1957 Thames Trader MkI [500E] in Look at Life: Where no Tide Flows, Documentary, 1963

Class: Trucks, Simple truck — Model origin:

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Author	Message
boys_bible ◊ 2014-05-20 14:50	Thames Trader?
chris40 ◊ 2014-05-20 14:53	Yes.
Ddey65 ◊ 2014-05-20 18:06	Mark I? /vehicle_411788-Thames-Trader-1959.html
jcb ◊ 2016-11-07 16:49	AEC factory in background, gone now of course. -- Last edit: 2016-11-07 16:58:45
mike962 ◊ 2016-11-07 17:04	JCB wrote gone now of course. thanks to Thatcher
Ingo ◊ 2016-11-07 17:17	mike962 wrote thanks to Thatcher Thanks to Cameron the same will happen with Ellesmere Port, Sunderland, Bridgend and Hams Hall.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2016-11-07 17:38	Since AEC was taken over by Leyland in 1962, and the cessation of production of AEC vehicles was 1977 when all production was concentrated on the newly expanded works at Leyland, and Thatcher was appointed PM in May 1979, the architect of their downfall was more likely Wilson or Stokes. In respect of current events, Sunderland, at least, appears secure for the foreseeable future. The further away we Brits move from the unelected bureaucracy, or is it Junkerocracy, of the Brussels/Strasbourg idiots the better. The German car industry will find life very different without British business, my Mercédès is due for replacement soon and I will think hard before buying another. I have had nothing but German badged cars since 1996, and German built since 1992, but I fear that this is coming to an end, -- Last edit: 2016-11-07 18:43:11
Ingo ◊ 2016-11-07 18:50	@jfs: how you can "Buy British!" arrange nowadays in the car section? Morgan, Bristol and ...? P.S. Strange, how many Brexiteers still haven't realised, that they were pranked and gypped all over... -- Last edit: 2016-11-07 21:14:11
Gag Halfrunt ◊ 2016-11-07 20:51	I'm not convinced that a fall in UK sales will bring Mercedes to its knees...
Ingo ◊ 2016-11-07 21:05	Gag Halfrunt wrote I'm not convinced that a fall in UK sales will bring Mercedes to its knees... I cannot imagine any company or branch, located in the EU outside UK, which is dependent for own surviving on a free access to GB. Except the sellers of used Sherry-barrels maybe. But they can keep calm, as it's just a question of time, until the Hadrians Wall will be re-activated as a Southern EU-border.
Sandie ◊ 2016-11-07 21:24	Gag Halfrunt wrote I'm not convinced that a fall in UK sales will bring Mercedes to its knees... Across most of the German models the UK is the biggest or second biggest market for them in Europe. As an example, I was reading that 41% of all C-Class sales in Europe last month came from the UK which is a greater proportion than even their domestic market (which was something like 32%). That's mirrored across the rivals like the A4 and 3 Series. The biggest assumption, however, is that there will be a drop in that and then whether it will be big enough for them to notice. I suspect what will happen will be down to the economy more than sentiments and in that case it's less likely to have an impact on more expensive cars (usually bought by more well off people or taken as company cars) than cheaper ones (stuff like Corsas more often financed by less well off people). -- Last edit: 2016-11-07 21:25:08
dsl ◊ 2016-11-07 22:39	I thought UK mainstream Mercs and BMWs (C-class, 3-series) came from ZA??
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2016-11-07 22:42	Following my 30 plus years negotiating contracts with various government departments I am fully aware of the way things can happen behind closed doors, such as those with which the duplicitous and mendacious officers of the EU have furnished themselves. I am not your normal foreigner hating Brexiteer, I voted the way I did after conversations with friends, including the retired MD of part of a top 100 company, who helped me form my opinion. I also voted that way in the hope of removing UK from the provisions of the possibly disastrous TTIP stitch up being foisted on generally unsuspecting EU countries by their unelected civil servants and the very much more expert representatives of American industry, whose agenda matches that of Trump. Do not class me as a person in possession of a limited or bigoted approach, it's not only FIFA that's rotten in Europe, there are many European things we can do without in UK, and Mercédès cars may be some of them. PS to Ingo, buying "British" is not on my agenda, but getting good value for money, not currently offered by M-B, is. I might do better buying Japanese, Korean, or a Ford. There is also the option, of course, of sitting on my wallet and buying nothing. Either way, German industry loses. -- Last edit: 2016-11-07 23:20:48
jcb ◊ 2016-11-08 17:25	UK market is Big Business and Big Business runs the world so I believe trade will continue more or less as normal after some short term turbulence. I am very glad we got out , its a case of democracy for me . If we had never been in it and we were asked to join tomorrow I think the answer would be no. -- Last edit: 2016-11-08 17:27:46
dsl ◊ 2016-11-08 18:23	JCB wrote I am very glad we got out And me .... JCB wrote If we had never been in it and we were asked to join tomorrow I think the answer would be no. Probably. But the big problem we have now is how to establish good constructive arrangements with EU for mutual benefit. UK could be a friendly neighbour, but both sides seem to want to win something which probably doesn't really exist. So it becomes a bitter divorce with both sides hating each other. And both sides suffer for no good reason. No-one in UK is really trying to find out why the vote went for Brexit - just a lazy assumption that it was all about immigration and sovereignty - so May and co. don't really know what we - the people - really want for a future relationship with Europe. And EU big cheeses are being totally arrogant in preventing real dialogue or admitting that the UK vote could be a very strong signal that EU could be drifting away from truly serving its people. Both sides need to build bridges and learn some humility and listening skills.
Sunbar ◊ 2016-11-08 19:58	dsl, I have to say your comments match my feelings almost exactly. We are in a completely untried and unprecidented situation and I can forsee the divorce settlement taking a lot longer than anticipated. Also I am uncertain that trade talks between the UK and the remainder of the EU can take place simultanously with the separation talks? Either way, I believe 'big business', the foreign owned UK manufacturing base will wait to assess the outcome; it could easily be seven or ten years or perhaps longer. A lot can happen anyway.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2016-11-08 22:27	I am truly sorry to be leaving what we could have been part of, but glad to see the back of what we are departing from.
Exiv96 ◊ 2016-11-08 22:46	johnfromstaffs wrote The further away we Brits move from the unelected bureaucracy, or is it Junkerocracy, of the Brussels/Strasbourg idiots the better. johnfromstaffs wrote I am not your normal foreigner hating Brexiteer, I voted the way I did after conversations with friends, including the retired MD of part of a top 100 company, who helped me form my opinion. I also voted that way in the hope of removing UK from the provisions of the possibly disastrous TTIP stitch up being foisted on generally unsuspecting EU countries by their unelected civil servants and the very much more expert representatives of American industry, whose agenda matches that of Trump. Do not class me as a person in possession of a limited or bigoted approach. Why do Brexiters always bang on about the "unelected" EU staff ? What's the difference with the UK ? That said, I agree with your TTIP comment. That thing is bad news, and Wallonia's recent resistance to the Canada-EU treaty, which is viewed as a prequel to the TTIP, was quite an eye-opener for many.
dsl ◊ 2016-11-08 23:26	Exiv96 wrote Why do Brexiters always bang on about the "unelected" EU staff ? What's the difference with the UK? "Unelected EU staff" is a lazy shorthand used by UK politicians and tabloids who have decided a long time ago that we are all too retarded to understand big words and concepts. But the issue behind it is about the lack of direct accountability to voter influence of the EU machine - too many levels between what we can vote for and what actually happens - so TTIP, CETA, suffocating Greece out of economic existence etc are allowed to happen without anyone who we can vote for having any influence. Even the Wallonia revolt against CETA (hoorah for regional democracy) was quickly nobbled with some token horse-trading and big pressure. Yes - UK has big unelected infrastructure, but there is a clear democratic accountability for Civil Service and Local Government, although the recent trend for arms-length trusts (NHS, education etc) and similar organisations is diluting this. For me the question is more that as we in UK have realised how remote from direct accountability these bits of the EU machine are, why aren't you lot in Europe similarly concerned about the lack of democratic control?
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2016-11-09 00:19	We can put in a freedom of information request to U.K. government departments and expect some form of answer, however tenuous or obfuscatory, to come back. We feel that the EU civil servants consider themselves under no obligation to anyone. I again draw an analogy between the EU and FIFA, look at the contempt with which the crook Blatter treated all those who provided his funds, recognise any parallels?
chicomarx ◊ 2016-11-09 00:37	dsl wrote why aren't you lot in Europe similarly concerned about the lack of democratic control? Um... Europe has lost its sheen here too. Nexit: 64% would vote leave in the Netherlands. Link to "www.theguardian.com" Probably the most progressive country in the EU, but of course they pay more than they get out, the taxpayer has to support Romania. Lack of democratic control is inevitable on a supra-national level. In the US they talk about "small government" on the state level, which indeed serves the people best. The concerns of British farmers don't make much impact on bureaucrats in Brussels. A local government can be held accountable by the voters.
chicomarx ◊ 2016-11-09 01:26	johnfromstaffs wrote I again draw an analogy between the EU and FIFA, look at the contempt with which the crook Blatter treated all those who provided his funds, recognise any parallels? Absolutely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pqO6tK8_Wg It's all there, Sepp.
Ingo ◊ 2016-11-09 13:06	johnfromstaffs wrote ... PS to Ingo, buying "British" is not on my agenda, but getting good value for money, not currently offered by M-B, is. I might do better buying Japanese, Korean, or a Ford. There is also the option, of course, of sitting on my wallet and buying nothing. Either way, German industry loses. Many (most?) of the Japanese and Korean cars, sold actually in Europe, are made there. Which means, that after a Brexit they will become more expensive in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lD_VIbgEZY (the "Great" will getting lost for sure, rather sooner as later) And about the losing German industry, well, BMW and Mercedes are not the whole German industry. The car-industry is very important here, but it's also not the whole German industry. There are other not less important branches, as cheamical products and machine-engineering. Both branches needs export partners with a large own industrial production - Britain belongs not any more to that party. Annother large and important German economy branch is -mostly unknown- the food industry. Britain is a quite large market -look and check, where the food in your strores, not only at Aldi and Lidl, also at Tesco, ASDA and Morrison's, is coming from. Not everything from Germany, but from the EU in majority. You are old enough to remember, how terrible it was with the British food, before the EU-influence was increasing, especially before Aldi and Lidl became big in UK: terrible and overpriced. Still in the 90ies many German visitors smuggled real, acceptable food to expats, living in the UK.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2016-11-09 14:39	My feelings exactly about the food, but the other way round. Sauerkraut - yuk. I have also eaten in German motorway services because I had to. Where do they make the right hand drive cars we have in Britain? -- Last edit: 2016-11-09 14:45:57
Ingo ◊ 2016-11-09 15:12	johnfromstaffs wrote My feelings exactly about the food, but the other way round. Sauerkraut - yuk. I have also eaten in German motorway services because I had to. Where do they make the right hand drive cars we have in Britain? your feelings are a bit outdated, 60 years old and more - Sauerkraut is not as popular here, as you think. Actually the Polish eat more Sauerkraut as the Germans. And in Poland it tastes better,too, plus there are more recipes for it About the RHD-version of German cars: no idea, if some (C-Klasse) were imported from South Africa for Britain. At VW/Audi they are among the others on the same assembling line. Same with Opel/Vauxhall. There's nothing British at actual Vauxhalls, as I can see at my Rüsselsheim-made Vectra. Not even the badges and the manual.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2016-11-09 16:27	I meant where do the Japanese, who use rhd cars, build the ones that come to England. Either in Japan or in England, why would they tool up for rhd in Europe when they already build at home. I know about shipping costs, which are nowhere near as much as you might think, hence better value from the Japanese. Currently £37,700 for a C250CDI Estate here, I think probably no deal. -- Last edit: 2016-11-09 16:27:58
Ingo ◊ 2016-11-09 17:05	It's no big thing, to produce RHD and LHD versions side-by-side. It's not even a big thing to produce different models side-by-side. Have you ever visited a car factory? About the price for the Benz: have you noticed, that since the Brexit-voting any imports from the €-world became 16% more expensive due the melting £? By the way: a dripping £ is nice not only for tourists from abroad, also for the vultures. Maybe the times become similar as on the DDR, after the Wall was fallen. When those crooks spooked over the land and have coaxed the dumb natives to sell their antiquities and collectibles for ridicolous amounts -but in real, hard money.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2016-11-09 18:55	1) You obviously have read very few of my posts. I worked for Alvis, is that good enough? 2) That price has been current for the whole of this year, and is available until 31/12/2016. 3) I could also go into some detail about how well my mother fed us in the 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s, but Antoine is probably becoming annoyed with this by now. -- Last edit: 2016-11-09 19:01:33
chicomarx ◊ 2016-11-10 02:44	AFAIK there is no UK plate site that gives out the VIN number free. Otherwise that would tell you the assembly plants.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2016-11-14 14:28	dsl wrote I thought UK mainstream Mercs and BMWs (C-class, 3-series) came from ZA?? I have just checked the VIN and this is not the case for the C class. My car was made in Bremen. -- Last edit: 2016-11-14 14:31:20
Sandie ◊ 2016-11-14 15:30	At least to start with W203s came from South Africa, W204s and W205s were (so far as I know) always German made. Don't think BMW and Audi built UK cars there at all. I was reading the other day that the current Toyota Hilux is now sourced from South Africa for Western European markets. Previously I think it was Thailand.
dsl ◊ 2016-11-14 15:50	"South African–built BMWs are now exported to right hand drive markets including Japan, Australia, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, and Hong Kong, as well as Sub-Saharan Africa. Since 1997, BMW South Africa has produced vehicles in left-hand drive for export to Taiwan, the United States and Iran, as well as South America. BMWs with a VIN starting with "NC0" are manufactured in South Africa." - wiki. Also "Since entering the market, the export volume has grown significantly from the original 500 units in 1995 to about 70,000 units of the 3 Series in 2013. BMW SA exports its 3 Series F30 units to eight different destinations globally, namely: Australia, Taiwan, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan, USA and Canada. BMW SA Markets are spread over eight include that of the United States, Japan and Australia leading to 87% of production volumes directly destined for export markets." from here - although UK seems to have dropped off current list, it would be easy enough to re-instate it??? My limited grasp of what was going on is that ZA produced the high volume stuff like C-class and 3-series, but only in the straightforward versions. Different bodies or high-end versions remained German-made. I don't remember Audi being mentioned in this context.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2016-11-14 17:54	I don't quite see where Mercédès fits in either, dsl's quotes only seem to mention BMW, and my car isn't a specialist model.
dsl ◊ 2016-11-14 19:59	Best Merc ZA reference I can find is a subscription page "Mercedes to build RHD C-Class in South Africa - Jul 1, 2000 With production of left-hand-drive C-Class sedans already underway in Sindelfingen and Bremen, DaimlerChrysler AG's Mercedes-Benz Div. soon will turn to South Africa for its right-hand-drive C-Class models. Annual production of 40,000 units will start in September at the East London plant for RHD markets in South Africa, the UK, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Malta, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Hong Kong and Ireland. The automaker has invested 170 million ..." before paid content kicks in. Lots of general recent pages - eg http://www.africancargonews.com/?p=2778 , http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/auto-industry-2016-07-01-2 - " ...C-Class exports to more than 80 countries, reached around 93,500 units in 2015, up from the 33,688 units exported in 2014, when the plant was still ramping up production of the new C-Class." , " ... making it the biggest C-Class factory outside Germany and with the highest export volumes" etc
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2016-11-14 21:05	All I can say is the VIN on my 2012 RHD estate car definitely says produced in Bremen, and, as I bought it new from a MB garage, it ought to be kosher. -- Last edit: 2016-11-14 21:08:11
dsl ◊ 2016-11-14 21:15	No doubt it is. But the point goes back to what German car makers would do about UK after Brexit - BMW and Merc could simply source our RHD stuff from ZA. Both have done it recently for the big-selling stuff, and if they wanted could probably widen it to include the full extent of whatever they make in ZA without big disruption.
Gag Halfrunt ◊ 2016-11-14 21:40	It looks as if cars are covered by the EU-South Africa free trade agreement, so big-selling RHD models probably are the full extent of Mercedes and BMW ZA production now, and the C-Klasse estate, for instance, would be imported to ZA from Germany. http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=URISERV%3Ar12201
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2016-11-14 21:49	So, as the enthusiastic purchaser of German built cars for the last 24 years, I now have an extra reason to go Japanese or Korean, because in order to avoid Ingo's swingeing price increases German badged cars will be built in other countries by even more non-German labour than previously. Also, even worse, quality checked by non-German inspectors. Maybe a Mazda6 then. Or maybe not. -- Last edit: 2016-11-14 21:52:05
dsl ◊ 2016-11-14 22:08	johnfromstaffs wrote Maybe a Mazda6 then. Or maybe not. I had a Mazda 6 TDi on a 3 month hire about 10 years ago - very good indeed in a quietly impressive way, possibly the best thing I'd driven up to that point. Newer ones seem to have been victims of the Incompetent Styling Fairy, but I wouldn't slag them off.
Ingo ◊ 2016-11-14 22:13	No idea, if an English version will be published, but in this article Link to "www.spiegel.de" there were several rumours mentioned, so that Toyota is planning "to avoid anything, which will cause a loss" and that Jaguar Land Rover "is reconsidering future investments in the UK". Oh, and they write something about a secret deal between Nissan and the British government. It's murmured, that the UK government pays money to Nissan, that they don't close down the Sunderland plant. The car industry makes 12% of the British export, nearly one third of the UK-made cars went into the other EU countries. The media spokesmen tell "business as usual" and "we are not afraid", but the workers have fear to loose their jobs. The guy with the moustache, the Labour-leader of Birmingham, feels insecure, too.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2016-11-14 22:33	I would be very surprised if Toyota was not planning to avoid a loss, and if JLR was not constantly reviewing its investment policies, brexit or no. The Nissan plant is very productive and successful, but agreed you do have to be able to sell your product before you can post a profit, however efficiently it is built. A bloke from Birmingham with a moustache is always miserable. http://quotesgram.com/img/nigel-mansell-quotes/12135758/ -- Last edit: 2016-11-14 22:49:31
Sandie ◊ 2016-11-14 23:00	johnfromstaffs wrote Maybe a Mazda6 then. Or maybe not. If I was looking for that kind of thing, I'd look at one of these: http://www.skoda.co.uk/models/superb-estate The lesser Skodas do seem de-contented next to the VWs but these actually seem to be a bit nicer than the Passat. Mazdas are okay, assuming they've got over their unwillingness to rust-proof anything.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2016-11-14 23:33	Again a maybe, but the soon to be five years old Mercédès has only done 31,000 miles and has lost much of its value, so it's probably worth keeping it for another five years. By then it'll probably be a wheelchair or a Nissan Leaf, whichever is the slower.

1957 Thames Trader MkI [500E]

1957 Thames Trader MkI [500E] in Look at Life: Where no Tide Flows, Documentary, 1963

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