Advertising Last completed movie pages
1952 Commer Express 8cwt Class: Cars, Van / MPV — Model origin: 
![[*]](/res/star.png){kind=small}
Background vehicle
Comments about this vehicle| Author | Message |
|---|---|
|
◊ 2012-11-13 22:24 |
Commer 8cwt. Express, 1953+ (but I can't be more specific). |
|
◊ 2019-11-24 16:32 |
Small rear windows up to 1955. Chrome side trim usage unknown currently. |
|
◊ 2019-11-24 17:18 |
My book with brochure pics shows no chrome strip on Sept 1948 Supervan (Minx Phase III-based), but it's there on what I'm assuming was Oct 51 Express facelift (as Minx Phase V with vertical ends to grille bars) - same brochure picture retouched with the new bits. The unknown stage is the Sept 49 transition from Supervan to Express (as Minx Phase IV, which did not have a wing chrome strip so unlikely on the van). So Oct 51 seems safe. |
|
◊ 2019-11-25 11:28 |
Agrees with the first definite appearance to date on imcdb of the chrome side strip. /vehicle.php?id=1281106#Comment2625005 October 1951 with sidelights, vertical side bars on grille. Deletion of chrome side strip on imcdb occurs apparently with or slightly after the large rear windows after 1955. Chrome strip and large rear window Without chrome strip with large rear window Survey of our listings whilst discounting about a third of pictures as "don't knows" obscured or too distant. -- Last edit: 2019-11-25 11:33:39 |
|
◊ 2019-11-25 13:47 |
@Sunbar - making a guess what the Sept 49 transition from Supervan to Express would have if it followed the Minx Phase IV exactly, I'd expect sidelights, but no vertical grille ends nor chrome side strip. So the only visible difference from Sept 48 final Supervan version would be the sidelights, if added at that point. My book with the retouched brochure picture (sidelights, vertical grille ends, side strip) has one-line caption suggesting these were part of the Sept 49 Supervan/Express transition, but I don't believe it as that would put the van ahead of the Minx sequence (which is solidly established). |
|
◊ 2019-11-25 20:45 |
dsl, I'm still trying to get my head around the actual details of the name change. 1949 MY Supervan from Sept 48 new full-width grille as Minx Phase III without sidelights ![[Image: 49supervan.jpg]](http://pics.imcdb.org/558/49supervan.jpg) CM has December 1949 article for MY 1950 this agrees with sidelights added. The only other visible change was extended front bumper with wrap-around corners - not always easy to see, MY 1949 had a shorter bumper with exposed body valance at the corners (no chrome side trim). Article states new 'Supervan' rather than mentioning 'Express' with the added sidelights! I cannot see that Commer had not advised them in December of the name change but three months later the Express name is in use, when exhibited at the Geneva show. -- Last edit: 2019-11-25 20:46:22 |
|
◊ 2019-11-25 20:59 |
MY 1952 Commer Express vertical grille bars and chrome side strip...![[Image: 1951express.jpg]](http://pics.imcdb.org/558/1951express.jpg) |
|
◊ 2019-11-25 21:43 |
This is the man who accuses me of dogged determination!! |
|
◊ 2019-11-25 22:03 |
That's my book picture so we're ... um ... on the same page. The next page (literally) has same brochure picture retouched (sidelights, grille ends, side strip - and the longer bumper wrapround is visible). Banner across top now says Commer Express Delivery Van. The only hiccup is the book's caption which as mentioned above says "For the 1950 season ..." so is 2(?) years premature for the trim tweaks, although the significant changes (engine, name) are OK for the 1950 season; the book's main text says autumn 1949. Unfortunately my Glass's info is blank until 1952, which is why I was cautious and tried to be clear where I was estimating dates (mainly by assuming they were same or soon after the equivalent Minx changes). I also noted a couple of hiccups later - for instance the book says the van stayed side-valve 1265cc until 1962 upgrade to 1592cc, while Glass's is clear that July 55 brought the 1390cc ohv upgrade from Sept 54 Minx. And the book has nothing on other changes listed by Glass's until 1962. But they agree on most of the common thresholds for what and when, and the extra Glass's info seems to match what our collection demonstrates, helped where available by plate dates, so we must be at or close to the full chronology. As for the late 1949 into early 1950 transition - maybe they added only the sidelights in Oct 49 (so enabling one wing format to cover both cars and vans for manufacturing convenience) then end 1949/start 1950 changed the engine and name, perhaps delaying things until they'd cleared all stocks of old engine?? Or until they could produce enough new engines to feed the vans as well. Van changes would have been more a case of "when we get round to it" than having the same urgency as cars with their Motor Show deadlines. |
|
◊ 2019-11-26 09:20 |
If I may offer a couple of thoughts on the engine conundrum. IIRC, the Husky used the sidevalve engine for some time after the saloon Minx variants had gone to the OHV design. This, plus use in the vans, maybe, could mean that it wasn’t a case of using up stocks, perhaps the things were still being built. Wasn’t there a Minx Special that stuck with the sv engine for some while after the pre-Audax had OHV in the mainstream? Who gets the putty medal for the last British sv engine in series production? Reliant in the last Regal before the breezeway design or Ford in the 100E Pop? Or elsewhere? Karrier Bantam? Dennis trucks? A motorbike? I don’t count Mercury station tractors or Centurion tank starter engines, which used Ford or Morris Eight engines, or 100E Morgans, but there must have been a last throw of the dice. Also, not the R-R or Rover F-head engines, hardly cheap and cheerful. Was there ever a sv diesel? -- Last edit: 2019-11-26 10:53:32 |
|
◊ 2019-11-26 10:52 |
BSA lasted until 1963 (M21), Triumph, I think '64 (TRW) but I think the record must go to Harley Davidson (who'd have thunk it), 1969 for the KR750 race bikes and 1973 for the Servi-Car. A SV diesel (in a vehicle)? Would it be capable of generating the necessary compression? |
|
◊ 2019-11-26 10:57 |
Cheers, a good start. Never thought about compression ratios, the sv motors must, of necessity, have had large combustion chambers respective to total swept volume, good point. -- Last edit: 2019-11-26 10:58:46 |
|
◊ 2019-11-26 12:11 |
In answer to dsl's comment... Autumn 1949 is too early I believe and is for the grille without vertical side bars and side chrome trim. Only significant addition was the sidelights. ![[Image: express50my.jpg]](http://pics.imcdb.org/558/express50my.jpg) Commer’s announcement of the 1950 MY “Commer Mark IV 8-cwt. Supervan” on 2nd December 1949 was at the time of CM’s publication of a road test performed no more than three weeks earlier (Remembrance Day wreaths visible outside of Luton Town Hall). The van was decidedly described as a “production vehicle” having already recorded 500 miles. I suspect today we would term it a pre-production vehicle as the whole front end wings and bonnet were in basic black in contrast to the main body in mid-tone grey, unregistered on trade plates. At the time it was described as a Supervan not Express. I suspect the announcement was some weeks if not months in advance of the first sales of the renamed ‘Express Delivery Van’ probably by Late January or February 1950. The later (1951 MY) extra trim-tweaks in your retouched book illustration would occur I guess in October 1950. Therefore the 1950 MY van probably was only in production for seven months? |
|
◊ 2019-11-26 12:22 |
Continued... Sidelights only 1950 MY Express Delivery Van (was Supervan) road test (Dec. 1949)... ![[Image: expresssupervandec49.jpg]](http://pics.imcdb.org/558/expresssupervandec49.jpg) "The engine had an increased capacity by 80.5 cc to 1.265 litres from 35 to 37.5 b.h.p. an independent front suspension system is fitted as is for the first time, a curved windscreen." The curved windscreen would be significant pressing change for the Commer van and Minx models (saloon and estate), although visibly not readily seen in photos etc. -- Last edit: 2019-11-26 12:36:24 |
|
◊ 2019-11-26 14:00 |
My book picture of the retouched version with sidelights, grille end bars, chrome side strip, longer bumpers and the nearly-but-not-quite-on-the-button caption.![[Image: commerexpressrinseymillsbook.jpg]](http://pics.imcdb.org/10314/commerexpressrinseymillsbook.jpg) Windscreen looks identical to previous versions. After checking several Minx pics, I don't see any changed screen after the Sept 48 rebodying (Phase III) through until end of Phase VIIIa; Glass's mentions curved windscreen as one of the Phase III elements. So I guess the CM reference refers backwards one year to the parallel van revamp, and does not mean a new screen appeared in late 49. Extended bumper came in on Minx in Phase IV when sidelights added, so van seems to match (as sunbar's brochure photo). To clarify, the late 1949 upgrade to 1265cc was still side-valve - it was the 1390cc upgrade (Minx Oct 54, van July 55) which brought in the OHV format. So while comments about Husky and poverty Minx Special clinging on to the side-valve are correct, they refer to later events. |
|
◊ 2019-11-26 20:36 |
 Being from the Luton-Dunstable area I never had any real interest in Commer vehicles. For the home of Commers and Karriers they always seemed rare, much more so than Bedfords, Fords and even BMC The three largest dealerships in addition to new products thet were in transit and clogging up the town centres. The 'Magnificent' (Minx), 'Supervan' and 'Express' handles applied by Rootes only added to the recent fascination. Any fascination I can now say is expired and I can safely put behind me. |
|
◊ 2019-11-27 00:17 |
Really the only Commer which stirred any interest in me and my pals was the Commer Avenger TS3/Duple that took us to the swimming baths ten miles away after break on a Tuesday morning. Anyone returning with an earful of chlorinated water would still arrive back at school deafened not only by the water but the braying exhaust note of the two stroke diesel. The two coaches that were used were both almost new, but disappeared now and again to be replaced by more time expired vehicles, but it was still two periods out of the day. |
Add a comment Advertising Advertising
