Comments about this vehicle

Author	Message
jcb ◊ 2022-05-22 00:32	AEC Tunnel Cement tanker I think. Probably a Mercury. Interesting is there more of it to be seen ? -- Last edit: 2022-05-22 00:40:59
Caboverlover ◊ 2022-05-22 01:04	JCB wrote AEC Tunnel Cement tanker I think. Probably a Mercury. Interesting is there more of it to be seen ? Yes, I will get the pictures for you today. -- Last edit: 2022-05-22 01:23:00
Caboverlover ◊ 2022-05-22 01:14
jcb ◊ 2022-05-22 09:49	Well i was spot on with Tunnel Cement! Fairly sure this is an AEC Mercury.
zodiac ◊ 2022-05-22 11:43	I'm sorry for asking this, but as I'm interested in everything I have to ask... What does "Tunnel Cement" mean? Is that a manufacturer of cement for building cites, or a manufacturer of cement tanks? -- Last edit: 2022-05-22 11:44:23
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2022-05-22 12:59	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanson_Cement See “history” paragraph.
zodiac ◊ 2022-05-22 16:50	Thank you!
jcb ◊ 2022-05-22 17:23	Yes Tunnel Cement just a company name . They made cement and delivered it in tankers and in bags . I assume they supplied a lot of cement for railway tunnels when they started. -- Last edit: 2022-05-22 17:46:55
jcb ◊ 2022-05-22 17:33	I like these little side avenues- we have had one of these sliding door cement tanker AEC Mercurys before . /vehicle_1106303-AEC-Mercury.html However did not know cab make , but now I know Tunnel Cement had them managed to find quite a few photos on the net and the cabs were made by Duramin. Link to "www.flickr.com" https://www.flickr.com/photos/183871373@N06/51383830606/ Link to "www.flickr.com" -- Last edit: 2022-05-22 20:42:00
zodiac ◊ 2022-05-22 21:53	I'm amazed about the knowledge of several contributors here on Imcdb, but I suppose that is because it's interesting to delve into the far corners of obscure engineering. I wish all members could show such curiosity.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2022-05-22 22:06	I think the bouquet should be handed directly to JCB, who had originally spotted the Tunnel connection. However, my years in industry have taught me where to look for semi-defunct companies - Google!
dsl ◊ 2022-05-22 22:28	JCB wrote I assume they supplied a lot of cement for railway tunnels when they started. Sadly perhaps, it was simply that they started from a quarry near Tunnel Farm, near West Thurrock in Essex - history here. The Duramin alloy cabs (so aluminium-based) theme intrigues me as a potential legacy from the immediate post-WW2 situation, where Britain was bankrupt with incredibly limited supplies of manufacturing steel (which was tightly rationed and only available by Government allocation), but awash with loads of aluminium after all the wartime aircraft production. So many car firms produced aluminium designs (eg Land Rover, Jaguar with the first XK120 etc) for survival until steel availability recovered. Did this also apply to lorry cabs, or had the situation improved by 1953 or 1955 (which are dates I've seen for Duramin-cabbed Mercurys appearing)??
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2022-05-23 00:00	dsl, while accepting your point concerning the scarcity of steel and the (relative) plethora of aluminium available just post WW2 to the automobile industry of the U.K., perhaps the situation might better be viewed looking at the numbers of steel Austins, Fords, Morrises and Standards, plus the output of the Rootes Group, against the number of aluminium Land Rovers and XK Jags. Maybe the situation was not quite as grave as you paint it, and I certainly would be surprised to find it had a material effect as late as 1955/6. (Pun intended). -- Last edit: 2022-05-23 00:01:14
dsl ◊ 2022-05-23 01:38	Maybe my summary does over-egg the pudding, which is why I posted it for our more knowledgeable experts to throw stones at as appropriate. I'm happy if 2+2 does not equal 5. It came from investigating the origins of the Land Rover, with some sources suggesting Rover was on the verge of bankruptcy until the Land Rover launch as they were denied enough steel allocation to produce more than a trickle of cars, and saddled with unsuitable ex-shadow plane factories rather than viable facilities for cars. So the Landie rescued them from the edge, and had a double bonus of being an instant export success, which released steel allocations by bringing in foreign cash. All the other makes you mention earned their steel from successful exporting, which is why early 50s Brit stuff occurs in so many weird and wonderful places round the world. And as a side observation, does this scenario also explain why there was such a lot of glass-fibre production as a second alternative lower down the food chain?? If the steel crisis had died away by mid-50s, were there still ripples in the system?? Or were there other self-contained advantages with aluminium truck cabs??
jcb ◊ 2022-05-23 06:34	Aluminimum is used for truck bodies and cabs due to its light weight. Unladen weight being absolutely critical to profitability. As gross weights are fixed by law the lighter a truck is the more it can carry. Benefits of corrosion resistance and being easy to work also being a factor. I wonder if the tank was also aluminimum . Surely the cost of getting large steel pressings made was the reason so many small makers went for fibreglass bodies then and now. I recently read that many small steel bodied small vans like the E83W had fabric roof panels due to the high cost of a large roof pressing. -- Last edit: 2022-05-23 08:24:54
jcb ◊ 2022-05-23 08:03	dsl wrote Sadly perhaps, it was simply that they started from a quarry near Tunnel Farm, near West Thurrock in Essex - history here. How prosaic ! I was thinking I should google this as I wrote it As an aside I do think the grey and red was a rather attractive livery, seen here on a Corgi model. -- Last edit: 2022-05-23 08:23:33
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2022-05-23 09:13	dsl - quoting from Slavin and Mackie, but paraphrased: Rover’s were not export minded, - did not even have an export dept until 1945. Steel for continued production of 15k units per annum of prewar designs post war was requested by Rover, gov’t offered steel for 1.1k, obviously not economic. Now me: - Rover 75 not marketed until 1950, so more pressures to find saleable product that would sell and input some cash. Models in production were outdated and not really saleable, and not mass market eligible. So, there was more to force adoption of LR as a product than shortage of steel sheet. JCB, not just Ford vans, the 103E had a rexine roof as well, body design from pre WW2 8/10/Prefect maybe dictating that, though. Plus politics of course! - https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cabinetpapers/themes/after-second-world-war.htm -- Last edit: 2022-05-23 09:52:17
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2022-05-23 12:25	In respect of those smaller manufacturers who used fibreglass for bodies, the main driver in this would have been the cost of tooling for steel pressings. Amortisation of very expensive tooling across the type of production run generally encountered by those firms would have resulted in non-competitive costs, which would mean that the more labour intensive build processes necessitated by fibreglass could still result in a price that could provide some profit and yet still sell cars. Examples: Reliant; Lotus, Winchester, Singer, and the almost “built in a shed” brigade like Berkeley and such. Even amortisation of tooling costs over substantial product runs adds a lot of money to individual cost of sales so limiting the small manufacturers to using pressed steel for chassis and suspension parts only. Watching the fitters changing tooling on our five station Weingarten transfer press, to belt out commercial vehicle clutch covers, and further down the shop the large presses that made chassis components, or Avenger petrol tanks, and you soon learn about the costs of tooling from the complication involved. We in the office block also knew when the Weingarten was starting up! For many years our site in Bilston made Mini rear subframes, tooling change costs being critical in the pricing of modifications. Those folk whose Mini suffered subframe failure due to rot could blame it upon BMC’s niggardly allowance for rust proofing, or perhaps our paint plant! The other consideration is that each of the large manufacturers either had, or would soon acquire, their own wholly owned specialist pressed steel body builder, who could design the tooling, make the tooling and then build the bodies to the “in white” stage, ready for painting and assembly, or even to the paint completed stage. The little firms couldn’t do this. Part, but not all, of the reasons for closure of Jowett was due to the imbalance between Briggs’s ability to build bodies, and Jowett’s ability to build, and sell, the cars. -- Last edit: 2022-05-23 12:55:05
dsl ◊ 2022-05-23 17:58	Thanks folks - I've learned a lot. And to my non-engineering brain (much to my dad's disappointment, because he was an engineer and tools/pressings designer for the mighty Rootes group), it sort of makes sense as well.
jcb ◊ 2022-05-23 20:17	Great chance for us three to show some knowledge and probably bore people though But i have learned something and glad we solved the cab mystery.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2022-05-23 23:54	👍
dsl ◊ 2022-05-24 01:39	JCB wrote I like these little side avenues... Me too. I've opened up a different topic on the forum which I've been intrigued by for many years to see if anyone wants to get their teeth into it.

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AEC Mercury with Duramin cab for Tunnel Cement

AEC Mercury in Three Hats for Lisa, Movie, 1965

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