Comments about this vehicle

Author	Message
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2019-05-03 15:34	E83W 10cwt van. 1938 - 1957.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2020-05-19 19:59	Admins. E83W 10cwt vans and such. In the absence of anything more constructive to do, but hastened by the impending arrival of stuff from the supplier, (I would like to tell you I have ordered a new Bentley, but it would be a fib) I have been reading some books. “Classic Van” magazine for July 2001, (if there are any sadder cases than I amongst the fraternity I would be surprised) has a leading article on E83W vans. In that is the golden pearl of wisdom that “The Ford E83W was announced in March 1938”. Further on, the article states “for 1939 the marque name was changed to Fordson”. (No other date given as to the exact start.) In 1946 the quick drop windows with chrome plated finger grips were introduced, along with beaded edges to the front wings.* In 1948 the shape of the rear wings changed to incorporate a longer trailing edge moulded into the body. The name “Thames” was introduced in August 1952, at chassis no C679653, and production ended in September 1957. As I understand it, the concurrent addition of the bonnet plates saying “A Ford Product” means that as far as goes the E83W, there is no such thing as a Fordson Thames. Just thought you’d like to know. * thanks to Sunbar for that, posted on 20/05/20 -- Last edit: 2020-05-20 14:35:13
Sunbar ◊ 2020-05-20 14:42	Your devotion to the Ford-Fordson-Thames task shows, jfs. To paraphrase the bard, "O, no! it is an ever-moving marque, That looks on tempests and is forever shaken..." May 1939 advert (there is another Fordson 10-cwt advert for January 1939 but I cannot copy it. Nothing currently found for 1938. -- Last edit: 2020-05-20 14:47:00
Sunbar ◊ 2020-05-20 14:57	CM Archive (of course) Fordson 10-cwt van introduced April 1938. Link to "archive.commercialmotor.com" -- Last edit: 2020-05-20 17:31:00
dsl ◊ 2020-05-20 15:52	Book snippets (Rinsey Mills - mainly from brochure pictures, captions and publication dates): - early grille (pre-war and immediately post-war) did not have central division. Implication that this was added in 1948 refresh, but not definite. [Edit - cancel this idea - I misread an ambiguous caption, and am now happy that all E83Ws had central division] - early ones had solid roof, fabric roof again seems 1948+. - they were sold in US from about 1950 - lots of different bodies. Had pointy over-riders on bumpers, sidelights immediately under headlights. Thames name used with model names such as ½Ton Van and Pick-up, 7-passenger Estate Car (= UK Martin Walter Utilecon) - late 40s onwards grille (again 1948+??) apparently had twin starting handle holes to accommodate LHD and RHD (although I'm confused why this happened - how does LHD/RHD affect where the starting handle socket is??). - implication from above that LHD exports only started in 1948 - no definite statement made, but seems a logical deduction - 1948 rear mudguard extension was to prevent mud accumulation and consequent rusting. So with fabric roof and probable LHD, these Finnish examples could well be 1948+, but model name up for grabs. Maybe ½Ton Van (as used in US) is more likely than 10cwt?? Or maybe 500Kg used - it's added after 10cwt in brackets and smaller print on some of the Mills UK brochure photos. -- Last edit: 2020-05-21 19:53:26
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2020-05-20 16:19	1. all-steel roof, prototype only, all production was with fabric roof panel in the vans acc to Classic Van. 2. That ‘39 ad looks like a divided grille to me. 3. The engine, clutch and gearbox were offset by four inches (remember them?) to the non-driver’s side of the chassis, as the driver’s legs were partway alongside the oily bits. This meant that the centre line of the crankshaft was not on the centre line of the chassis, but offset by some distance. If you think about this, it means that the starting handle dog would also be offset to the left of the vehicle for rhd, and to the right of the vehicle for lhd. (All looking forwards of course.) 4. This may sort out some problems. /vehicle_939436-Fordson-10cwt-Van-E83W-1941.html If 1941 is kosher, fabric roof, one starting handle hole, large headlamps, early rear wings, unwired wing edges. Apparently added rear lamps and reflectors. 5. Max speed 35mph. -- Last edit: 2020-05-20 21:03:19
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2020-05-20 17:13	Thank you for your little note Sunbar. Appropriate response will possibly surface after I have had a pint. (No, it’s builder’s tea with a liberal splash of Aldi’s finest £14.99 per litre Scotch drain cleaner in it.) -- Last edit: 2020-05-20 17:20:24
Sunbar ◊ 2020-05-20 17:29	1938 first picture in CM archive of the front added to previous comment to better describe initial design. -- Last edit: 2020-05-20 17:32:35
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2020-05-20 18:06	http://www.e83w.co.uk/chassis.htm Chassis and drivetrain shows back axle/differential is offset to match the position of the power unit assembly. My spatial imagination has never been too spiffy, but I think if you simply turned the axle over vertically through 180 degrees left to right you would end up with three reverse speeds and one very slow forward! It does, though, seem probable that the axles are in bits, so you could probably use similar parts, just assembled differently. dsl, I think that this should cure your starting handle hole worries. -- Last edit: 2020-05-20 21:12:32
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2020-05-20 18:12	http://www.e83w.co.uk/index.htm Fill yer boots chaps!
Sunbar ◊ 2020-05-21 15:01	What appears to be the chromed window pull on the window glass in a 1942 film here could prove it was fitted before 1943 rather than 1946? -- Last edit: 2020-05-21 15:01:41
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2020-05-21 15:45	I can only say what the book said, however, the van had window winders at that stage afaik.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2020-05-21 16:00	Further offer, from “Ford Popular and the Small Sidevalves” by Dave Turner: - 1946 Rear wing shape changed, window winders deleted (now lifted by plated finger grips), accelerator pedal moved from centre to right of brake.” So, we now have three references to say 1946 for the window lift. Plagiarism?
dsl ◊ 2020-05-21 19:50	My brain is beginning to melt down with all the E83W tricks. As soon as we find one bit of info and a date, another source pops up with a different version .... Am beginning amid this to-ing and fro-ing to think that most of the dates claimed by Mills (derived from what he says are brochure dates) and which I listed a few comments above are wrong; he said Thames name came in 1948 (which is wrong) then illustrates a lot of Thames brochures (UK and US) with clear statements these were Feb 50, so I've been following some false trails. I also mis-read a comment to suggest that first E83Ws did not have grille division - he was only talking about pre-war 5cwt. So am now happy that all E83Ws had grille division. Which leaves some pointers still running or open to be resolved: - extended rear arches: we have different statements for 1946 or 1948; maybe 1948 works better in our collection, as we have some 1946/47 plate dates with early short arch, although not enough (from numbers and clarity of pics) to be definite - LHD export versions and twin socket grilles seem to work well for 1948+ Fordsons, so am relieved about that. Although I haven't really found twin socket grilles on any of our 51+ Thames - these seem to have black grilles so sockets could be present or more easily camouflaged, but it's odd I couldn't see any definites - was there another later grille change? - we have a fair few Swedish E83Ws both Fordson and Thames, with a couple marked as made in S and one coded [E83W-STX] in similar fashion to S-built Mk1 Consul/Zephyr [EOT(T)A-STX]. Is there any definite info for/against S-build?? - I've only got Glass's info after 1950, which adds 2 snippets (i) Aug 52 radiator badge altered to Thames (chassis C.679653 if anyone's counting) and (ii) Sept 54 twin rear lights/reflectors. And discontinued Oct 57. - quite a few of Mills brochure reproduction clearly have solid roofs and from his (admittedly wobbly) dates these are early - Fordsons and initial Thames. Most of his Thames pics have fabric. So if jfs and his sources are correct that all full-body E83W vans and estates had fabric, Ford's line-drawing artists made recurring goofs over several years. One curious point from the LHD/RHD comments and the link jfs gave to an early chassis plan showing driver legroom alongside the engine - Mills says early E83Ws were only supplied with a driver seat and no passenger provision, which puzzled him. Maybe we have the explanation .... And to finish, I suggest as likely LHD, these Finnish vans in a 1952 film can be dared as 1948+.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2020-05-21 20:39	I have tried to find construction and use regs from the era, but apparently it is not digitised and I would need to order its recovery, and view in person. There are some images in the database of Austin Ruby cars in their original state with one central rear light, and fifties images showing additional lights on the back wings. -- Last edit: 2020-05-21 20:43:23
Sunbar ◊ 2020-05-21 21:36	Sunbar wrote What appears to be the chromed window pull on the window glass in a 1942 film here could prove it was fitted before 1943 rather than 1946? johnfromstaffs wrote I can only say what the book said, however, the van had window winders at that stage afaik. I have now found a 1944 example, which appears to be genuine and not restored, with conventional wind-up windows both sides which reverts the push-pull window introduction date to 1946. The 1942 'Worker and the War Front' van perhaps an odd-ball development van supplied by Ford and given a local registration for filming?
Sunbar ◊ 2020-05-21 21:53	Rear Lights Bill Passed : Two Tail Lamps to be Obligatory from October 1, 1954 (article 19th June 1953). Link to "archive.commercialmotor.com" -- Last edit: 2020-05-21 21:56:12
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2020-05-21 21:58	Thank you Sunbar. My short term memory could be better, but if my long term memory is going as well.... What was I saying?
Sunbar ◊ 2020-05-21 22:29	I typed too soon to be continued... (above needs reconsideration!) As reported in The Commercial Motor on January 8, it has been proposed that all commercial vehicles should have two rear lights as from October 1, 1955.
Sunbar ◊ 2020-05-22 12:27	^ From reading later articles it looks like they were all concerned with future proposed legislation and the vehicle manufactures were resisting it. I can find no definite date when the law requiring two rear lights was enacted, the most recent being in 1954... "the date we had in mind (1957!) originally may be modified (to 1955). I cannot say yet what final decision may be reached." The Minister of Transport. It appears two rear reflectors were to be compulsory in October 1954, but again there were concerns if that date could be met. My guess is that the manufacturers wanted to make their own changes and then the legal requirements to follow their established standards.

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1948 Fordson 10cwt Van [E83W]

1948 Fordson 10cwt Van [E83W] in Lohjalla tavataan, Documentary, 1952

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