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Author	Message
twingoman ◊ 2013-12-21 20:07
twingoman ◊ 2013-12-21 20:08	Set in 1963, a modern Ford very briefly appears.
twingoman ◊ 2013-12-21 20:28	Most of the plates used are fake.
Q-Ball ◊ 2013-12-21 22:08	any pictures of the train?
dsl ◊ 2013-12-21 22:14	No - it was stolen.
mike962 ◊ 2013-12-21 22:15	Ronnie Biggs died a few days ago RIP
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2013-12-21 23:41	I'm sorry I cannot agree with that sentiment, the driver of the train was injured so much that he never worked again. The concept of lovable rogue is not applicable in this case.
Q-Ball ◊ 2013-12-22 03:36	johnfromStaffs wrote I'm sorry I cannot agree with that sentiment, the driver of the train was injured so much that he never worked again. The concept of lovable rogue is not applicable in this case. True, but his kid was in Alabama 3
mike962 ◊ 2013-12-22 10:57	johnfromStaffs wrote I'm sorry I cannot agree with that sentiment, the driver of the train was injured so much that he never worked again. The concept of lovable rogue is not applicable in this case. how do you know it was Biggs who hit him ? it could have been a more agresive gang member ?
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2013-12-22 11:36	Not the point, in English law we have a doctrine called collective responsibility. All involved are considered to be partners in crime, and Mr Biggs never expressed remorse of any kind. I have no knowledge of who hit the driver with an iron bar, but it doesn't figure in my assessment. As someone said in the film, the driver had just gone to work. -- Last edit: 2013-12-22 17:19:33
twingoman ◊ 2013-12-22 12:25	Q-Ball wrote any pictures of the train?
G-MANN ◊ 2013-12-22 18:41	I don't know much about Biggs or the great train robbery, so I'm not sure why he seems to be thought of as some kind of folk hero, but I'm guessing it's something to do with the whole swinging sixties iconography that the Kray twins are also part of.
mike962 ◊ 2013-12-22 18:44	general public likes charming criminal who can get away with it plus as was pointed out the whole gang received too harsh sentences, Biggs himself said they received much more than killers or rapists would have gotten -- Last edit: 2013-12-22 18:45:11
G-MANN ◊ 2013-12-22 18:54	People always like a good story as well.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2013-12-22 19:34	Regrettably, although we are here to identify the vehicles in a dramatisation, in the above exchanges we are talking about an actual occurrence, an actual crime in which an innocent man's life was changed forever just for being at work. The purpose of the exercise was to steal the money, and, although the intention of the train robbers was to avoid violence, Jack Mills was hit on the head and the rest of his life was one of reduced potential. Surely this cannot be acceptable? How would you feel towards the train robbers if Jack Mills had been your Dad?
mike962 ◊ 2013-12-22 19:40	guarding MONEY is always a job associated with (high) risk of being seriouly injured or killed , every security guard at banks or money transporters should know that, it's not your average job and you are overdramatizing , the talk was about Ronnie Biggs himself not about the whole gang -- Last edit: 2013-12-22 19:41:56
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2013-12-22 19:50	Jack Mills was a train driver and not a security guard, Biggs was a convicted criminal. No more to say. -- Last edit: 2013-12-22 20:01:46
kudos ◊ 2013-12-24 12:40	Whilst the train involved in the real incident was D326, a British Rail Class 40 diesel, the train used here is inaccurately a British Rail Class 37 'English Electric Type 3', complete with a 1980s addition high-intensity headlight and dubbed General Motors engine sound.
Sunbar ◊ 2013-12-24 14:13	I watched part 1 on BBC I-Player, and believe an Austin-Healey (or replica?) is missing from the listing as used by the robbers to visit the bridge location near Mentmore... Screen grabs from BBC I-Player. 0:22:50
dsl ◊ 2013-12-24 15:18	^ AH 3000 Mk2 or early Mk3.
twingoman ◊ 2013-12-24 19:51	I did capture images of the Austin Healey, but for some reason didn't upload it.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2013-12-25 22:13	kudos wrote Whilst the train involved in the real incident was D326, a British Rail Class 40 diesel, the train used here is inaccurately a British Rail Class 37 'English Electric Type 3', complete with a 1980s addition high-intensity headlight and dubbed General Motors engine sound. We are accustomed to being critical of cars used in films, showing both anachronisms and inappropriate usage. Bearing in mind the cost of moving a thing as big as a Class 40 maybe we should be a bit more lenient.
RyanTee82 ◊ 2014-07-08 03:52	What's the chief difference between a Jaguar Mark I and a Mark II? The only thing I can outwardly see is the Mark II's grill is slightly V-shaped -- wider at the top.
dsl ◊ 2014-07-08 04:29	^ positions of minor front lights; passenger cabin - MkI has thick pillars and small windows - looks much heavier on top - and narrower rear track, often with spats over rear wheels - typical 50s stodgy styling. MkII looks much more modern and lighter shape despite same basic outline.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2014-07-08 07:22	Mk I has painted window surrounds, Mk II has stainless steel. No 3.8 engine in Mk I.
Daffydd ◊ 2014-12-28 12:54	ryantee82 wrote What's the chief difference between a Jaguar Mark I and a Mark II? The only thing I can outwardly see is the Mark II's grill is slightly V-shaped -- wider at the top. There is also a slender waist, wider body (about 3"), and some basic rearrangements of lights front and back...
jpts ◊ 2015-10-28 08:59	johnfromStaffs wrote I'm sorry I cannot agree with that sentiment, the driver of the train was injured so much that he never worked again. The concept of lovable rogue is not applicable in this case. Jack Mills died of chronic lymphocytic leukemia on the 28th February 1970 at the age of 64, while Mills' Secondman (Driver's Assistant); David Whitby had managed to return to work as a Secondman but he died of a heart attack on the 6th January 1972 at the age of 34. Another innocent victim of the Great Train Robbery was William Boal, he was wrongfully convicted for being part of the robbery crew when in fact he knew nothing about the robbery other than he was a friend of Roger Cordrey and was with him when he and Cordrey were arrested. Boal died of cancer while in prison on the 26th June 1970 at the age of 56. -- Last edit: 2023-02-18 12:43:34
Chris S ◊ 2016-08-23 18:36	I am the new owner of the Austin Healey in the two captions above with the car near the bridge. It's currently undergoing a full restoration back to its former glory.
antp ◊ 2016-08-23 19:21	Nice I made a page for it: /vehicle.php?id=951308 (I don't know why it had not been done before) Do not hesitate to post photos of the car if you have some, or more info.
jpts ◊ 2016-11-04 14:19	A investigation conducted by the Royal Mail had revealed that the Royal Mail had recently added three new Royal Mail Security Coaches to their Traveling Post Office Fleet. These new security coaches were made of steel and were fitted with the latest security features, including an alarm system, however on the night of the robbery, these new coaches weren't operational, instead they were undergoing maintenance at different maintenance yards throughout Britain. Since the movements of all Royal Mail TPOs were restricted, the Royal Mail suspected the gang's insider was a Royal Mail Security officer as they would've had access to information regarding the movements of all Royal Mail TPOs and the amount of cash that the TPOs carried. The police investigation revealed the robbery crew had consisted of 17 men, out of the 17, 5 were members of the South Coast Raiders Gang and 4 including Reynolds were members of the Southwest Gang. Others were associates of the two gangs. These were: "The Ulsterman" - High ranking Royal Mail Security officer, met with Tommy Wisbey and Buster Edwards and provided the information on the movements of the Royal Mail trains to the gang, never identified nor caught. It is believed that Belfast-born Gerald McMorran (who died in 1999) was the Ulsterman as he worked for the Royal Mail GPO Security Unit at the time of the robbery. Bruce Reynolds - Known as Napoleon, Antique dealer, thief and leader of the South West Gang, was the mastermind behind the robbery, fled to Belgium and later, Acapulco, Mexico on the 6th June 1964, fled to Vancouver in British Columbia, Canada on the 6th December 1966 and then to Nice, France, captured after arriving back in Britain on the 8th November 1968 and sentenced to 25 years, released in 1978, sentenced three years imprisonment for dealing amphetamines in the mid 1980s, died on the afternoon of the 28th February 2013. Douglas Goody - Known as Gordon, Bar owner, hairdresser, member of the South West Gang and Reynold's second in command, was one of the organizers for the robbery and one of the men who met with The Ulsterman, captured shortly after the robbery and was sentenced to 30 years, released after 12 years in 1975, later moved to Mojácar in the Almería Region, Spain, died of emphysema on the 29th January 2016. Brian Field - Law clerk and associate of the Ulsterman, once defended Gordon Goody and Buster Edwards in other criminal cases prior to the robbery and was one of the men who organized the purchase of the robbery crew's hideout at Leatherslade Farm, convicted on the 16th April 1964 and sentenced to 30 years but was dropped down to 5 years, later released in 1967, died in a car crash on the 27th April 1979. Roy James - Known as the Weasel, Silversmith and race car driver, was one of the getaway drivers and one of the men who uncoupled the carriages, captured on the 10th December 1963 and convicted in 1964 and sentenced to 30 years, released in 1976, later acquitted in 1983 for attempting to import gold without paying the excise duty, later imprisoned for six years after assaulting his wife with a pistol and shooting her father in 1994 and later released after 3 years, died of a heart attack on the 21st August 1997. Roger Cordrey - Florist and leader of the South Coast Raiders, committed a series of thefts on the London-to-Brighton and Midlands Railway Lines, was the electronic expert and one of the men who stopped the train by covering green railway signal with a glove and wiring the battery to the red signal, captured on the 14 August 1963 and sentenced to 20 years imprisonment, released in April 1971 and returned to his florist business, died in 2011. Six months prior to the Great Train Robbery, on the 20th February 1963, Cordrey, and other members of the South Coast Raiders committed a robbery of the Irish Mail Train that was running from Holyhead to London, the robbers believed that the train was carrying consignment of diamonds from Amsterdam to Dublin but had only netted £3,000 in cash. Before his death, Cordrey stated that his friend and engineer, William Boal (who was arrested with Cordrey and later sentenced to 24 years imprisonment for his part in the robbery) had known nothing of the robbery and was innocent, Boal died in prison in 1970 while serving his sentence. John Wheater - Solicitor and Brian Field's boss, was one of the men who organized the purchase of Leatherslade Farm, captured on the 3rd December 1963 and sentenced to 3 years, was released in February 1966 and became a manager of his family's laundromat business, died on the 18th July 1985. James Hussey - Known as Big Jim; Member of the South Coast Raider, was the one of the muscle men, captured on the 7th September 1963 and sentenced to 30 years, released after 12 years in 1975, died in a hospice on the 12th November 2012. John Daly - Known as Paddy, Bruce Reynolds' Irish-born brother-in-law, antique dealer and associate of the South West Gang, was one of the getaway drivers and the one who stopped the train, captured on the 3rd December 1963 but was acquitted on the 14th February 1964 due to a lack of evidence, died in April 2013. Henry Smith - Known as Harry, Bill Jennings, Flossy or Mr. One, Associate of the South West Gang and was one of the men who uncoupled the carriages, was never identified nor caught. James White - Known as Jimmy, Associate of Reynolds, was the one who supplied the truck and was one of the men who uncoupled the carriages and later repainted the truck to pass it off as a truck belonging to a local brick company, captured on the 21st April 1966, released in April 1975. Daniel Pembroke - Known as Danny or Frank Monroe, Former soldier, and member of the South Coast Raiders, was one of the muscle men, was brought in for questioning, but released due to a lack of evidence, fled to the US after the robbery, settling in Fort Lauderdale, Florida before returning to Britain in 1968 and working as a taxi driver, died in Kent in early 2015. Ronald Biggs - Known as Ronnie, Thief and associate of Reynolds, was the contact for the replacement driver, captured on the 4th September 1963 and sentenced to 30 years imprisonment, escaped from Wandsworth Prison on the 8th July 1965, fled to France and then to Australia in 1966, living in Glenelg, South Australia and then Doncaster East and Blackburn North, Victoria where he worked on the construction site of the Channel 9 TV studios, fled to Brazil in 1970, returned to Britain on the 7th May 2001 where he was arrested and sentenced to 28 years, released after 8 years in 2009, died on the 18th December 2013. "Stan Agate" - Known as Peter, Alf or Pop, Former shunter for Southern Railway and associate of Biggs, was the replacement driver of the train but was unable to drive the train as the locomotive was a newer model, never identified nor captured. Robert Welch - Known as Bob, Member of the South Coast Raiders, was one of the organizers and muscle men, captured on the 25th October 1963 and sentenced to 30 years, released after 13 years in 1976. Ronald Edwards - Known as Buster, Member of the South West Gang, once took part in the Comet House Robbery at the BOAC Headquarters at Heathrow Airport in 1962 and was one of the organizers, turned himself into the police on the 19th September 1966 and sentenced to 15 years, released after 9 years in 1975 and ran a flower stall, committed suicide at a lock-up in Lambeth, London on the 28th November 1994. Thomas Wisbey - Known as Tommy, Bootmaker, robber, member of the South Coast Raiders and associate of the Ulsterman, was one of the muscle men, captured on the 11th September 1963 and sentenced to 30 years, released after 13 years in February 1976, later convicted and sentenced to 10 years imprisonment for cocaine possession in 1989, died of a stroke on the 30th December 2016. Charles Wilson - Known as Charlie or Chas, Market Trader and member of the South West Gang, was the "treasurer" and one of the organizers of the robbery, captured on the 22nd August 1963 and sentenced to 30 years, escaped on the 12th August 1964 and fled to Montreal in Quebec, Canada, recaptured after arriving back in Britain on the 25th January 1968, released after 10 years on the 15th September 1978 and moved to Marbella, Spain, later involved in laundering some of the proceeds from the 1983 Brinks-Mat Armed Robbery, shot and killed by unknown gunmen on the doorstep of his home in Marbella on the afternoon of the 23rd April 1990. It was believed Wilson's murder were part of a series of gangland murders linked to the Brinks-Mat Robbery that occurred at the Brinks-Mat Warehouse near Heathrow Airport on the morning of the 26th November 1983, where a number of criminals and their associates who were involved in handling of gold stolen in the robbery were being shot and killed in what the media dubbed, "The Brinks-Mat Curse", while others believed that Wilson's murder was part of a gangland war over the drug trade on the Costa Del Sol. It was suspected that Wilson's murder was committed by William "Porky" Edmunds and Daniel "Scarface" Roff on orders from Roy "The Lump" Adkins after Wilson gave associate and smuggler, Jimmy Rose "permission" to speak with the police about a drug shipment that Rose was carrying was owned by Adkins (who was on the run) and led to the arrest of Adkins in a raid on his apartment in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, Adkins himself was later shot and killed by unknown gunmen in the Nightwatch Bar of the American Hotel in Amsterdam on the night of the 28th September 1990. It is believed that Adkins' killers were hired by former associate and Dutch drug lord, Klaas "De Lange" Bruinsma who himself was later shot and killed by crime figure and former Dutch Police Officer, Martin Hoogland outside the Hilton Amsterdam in the early hours of the 27th June 1991. Roff was shot and wounded by a unknown gunman at a nightclub on the 10th February 1996, Roff survived the shooting and was left unable to walk, Roff was later shot and killed as he was sitting in his Mercedes-Benz outside his home in Bromley, Kent on the night of the 24th March 1997. Leonard Field (unrelated to Brian Field) - Known as Lennie, Merchant sailor and one of Brian Field's clients, was the brother of one of Field's clients, Alexander Field (who Field defended in a fraud trial and was imprisoned) and was the one of men who paid a deposit for the purchase of Leatherslade Farm, captured in late 1963 and sentenced to 25 years imprisonment, later dropped to five years imprisonment and was released in 1967. According to the Edwards, Field was paid "a drink" of £12,000 to put down the £5,000 deposit for the farmhouse and was led to believed that the gang was going to hijacked a lorry carrying load of cigarettes and not a train. "Mark" - Associate of Brian Field and the Ulsterman, was the one who arranged the meeting between the Ulsterman and Buster Edwards and Gordon Goody and had arranged the Land Rovers and the Bedford Lorry to give to Jimmy White to be used in the robbery as well as the transportation for the gang to the farm and from the farm after the robbery and was meant to clean down the farmhouse at Leatherslade but failed to, neither identified nor captured. According to Edwards, "Mark" was paid "a drink" of £28,500 to wipe down and clean the farmhouse, Edwards then later stated that he used part of the proceeds from the robbery (about £10,000 in 10 shillings notes) to help paid the 28,500 for "Mark's drink", but instead, "Mark" took off with the money and disappeared. -- Last edit: 2023-12-02 08:00:49

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The Great Train Robbery, Mini-Series, 2013

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